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    Post  kemokae on Mon 26 Apr 2010, 8:24 pm

    I went to your "link" and some of it I have different information on, for instance
    I have that Benjamin Hawkins was an "Land speculator" in his day...not to say he
    may not of also been an Indian they ususally got ahold of land through treaties with the Indians. He has the apparent long time "thought" of black people being "lazy"..but subjected people little more then an "object" and treated as such
    are much like that in temperment..raped against their will by everyone male, including their own, the woman had little to look forward to, the men often beaten
    at times if they had not an wealthy kind landowner over them, most likely feared reprisal at every "self-action" they tried to posses perhaps. They had absolutely no "voice" in anything. Reminds me of the Drug Cartels in Mexico right now, and also the past history of some of the Russians individual states. I can understand how John Brown would say that "human slavery" needed to be wiped off the face of the earth...for all races and
    According to the Cherokee Application book these people are Creek Indians and have
    nothing to do with the Cherokee...and were rejected by them...they list these family
    names..Billy Weatherford, Peggy Bailey, William and Chilly Macintosh, and Alexander
    McGillvary, and those claming through the names of McGhee, Hollinger, McIntosh,
    Moniac, Franklin or Gilliam families. This book called "Patriarch" on George Washington has considerable to say about McGillvery..who is said to been an Scot trader married to an Creek woman from the prestigious family known as Wind. Washington entertained this man,as well as the Creeks lavishly in New York with liquor and women and gifts hoping he'd stop interferring with the Spanish down in New Orleans in helping him unite the Creeks with their northern Native American neighbors, and British...and hurting the American cause to taming the frontier borders. In short Washington knew he could little win an Revolutionary War if the Indians, British, and Spanish were united. They seem to hint perhaps an kind of
    "black-mail" ensued by McGillvery later on for more wealth, using the "Spanish"
    if need be in New Orleans, something the British didn't mind at all to favor their cause in the war then either. The Creeks lived south of the Cherokee I understand, and thier towns were literally wiped out with the Cherokee at the same time, in one huge forced march of the United States army. They have their own "Creek Files" with the Federal Government. As for McGillvary he died apparently before things really got testy down south, perhaps was the recongization of Washingotn that we'd either end up someday fighting the Spanish..or else we'd better buy their territory if we want to keep the country in whole(Louisanna Purchase)...but I do have his name as immigrating to America up north in my records of New Jersey...before making it down in to Creek Territory. I also have one, rather him or not, as an clothing tailor/fur trader perhaps. (I wonder how much Benjamin Hawkins was not also an Benjamin Larkins/Martin..and I have an Hugh Larkin with the Kennedy family and in immigration with McGillveray having landed here from the same ship). Reports from Col. James Martin's family say that Benjamin was an land-spectulator also (or was he?)...but we know the family was into buying up land for George Washington back then to set up an chain of "Forts" just prior to the Rev. War of the first things Washington did as Commander of the then he knew to well people needed protected from the out-numbered Indians in their warring days, and needed fortified with each other as an "Nation". So goes "United we stand, Divided we fall" still applies also..esp in reguard to the Drug Lord's south of us right now on our borders and infiltrating our country. AS an country, we need to be protected from within its confines...the FBI has joined forces with the Native
    American Reservations these days to stop them...most reservations have intertribal police that are few, these Drug Lords can run over thier teritority growing and smuggling drugs through is perfect ground for them to "obtain" of their own needs. I think many Native Americans are now understanding this perhaps.

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    Post  Grits on Mon 26 Apr 2010, 10:44 pm


    Hawkins is a very familiar name to me as he lived right here where I live now. He is always listed as an Indian agent.

    There have been two books written about the history of my town and I was just reading in one the other day. I'm going to go through there and pick out some names for you.

    Here is a link to the earlier book:

    A History of Tallassee

    and I can't find a link to the new one. It is also called "A History of Tallassee" and was written by E.W. Wadsworth (who was a cousin of my deceased step-father). I think they are still available at the local historical society, but not sure.

    Just found this about Hawkins:

    My little town is planning to expand a bit. Some rich investor is going to try and make it a tourist type town. One of the new things will be a center for Creek Indian history which I think is really cool! It'll probably take a few years to build this all up (if ever, things have a way of starting off great here and then petering out...sigh). I've always thought it was a great shame that our rich history is not paid much attention to around here, so maybe things are changing...

    More some errands to do.



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    Post  kemokae on Tue 27 Apr 2010, 7:46 pm

    I bookmarked the history site and will await for your names least they
    have it correct on our James Glenn family..he left Augusta Co., Va. to go down and
    be the state Govenor. Eliza Ann Glenn is in our family notes up in Ilinois also and connected as an in-law to my grand-father William E. Larkins. Andrew Jackson showed up there just before he left for Oregon. I wonder fo ran land grant of it my ancestor was enough Native American he was after him. You should have an few of
    teh Davis clan in your area from Augusta Co., Va. also that this Glenn family would marrying into an be another maternal line to me. Sarah Ann Davis m. Jereimiah R. Larkins, son of Racheal Reed (Read) Larkins and William E. mother's lineage is of their only son..beging Jeremiah...he remarried an had quite a brood later on with Ketura Hailey also. They eventually removed to near the Kansas-Nebraska line. We are told that William E. Larkins father was an "James" on his land claim records, but which one? You should also have in your area an Sanuel
    Handley/Hailey also. You rshold also have i nyoru area some Lawson family and as
    I mentioned prior the Brown/Anglen/possibly Miles family. I found no reference to
    BEnjaimin Hawkins in this Geroge Washington book I have, and your history has his father as to this MCGilverary was the the "Scot-trader. He si in quite an few of the
    Adair family entries in mention also with the Cherkoee Application. Do you know about the Saponi Forum? should. Talk to you later.

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    Post  kemokae on Tue 27 Apr 2010, 7:49 pm

    should of read just before "William E. Larkins went to Oregon in 1847"..instead of before he left, makes it sound like Andrew Jackson left, he did also... but the wrong person here.

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    Post  Grits on Wed 28 Apr 2010, 1:30 am


    I didn't get much sleep last night, so I'll hit the highlights tonight.

    There are a good many Adairs and Davis' around here. I know some Larkins. They are all African American. Dale (my son) was friends with twin Larkins (also AA) in school whose relative is a well known local tv personality. I know one family of Glenn's.

    Here are some websites that might help you out:

    and this one is a pretty good index of local cemeteries (lots of local names in it and it gives names of parents on most of them):

    McGillivary is talked about in local history but I think it's because he documented the history around here as did Hawkins.

    In the "Indian Traders" chapter, these names are listed:
    Bartram, an English botanist that studied this area
    James Germany, Indian trader
    James "Peter" McQueen, a Scotsman who owned lots of property and who in 1776 was the oldest white man living with the Creeks (says he is an ancestor of the Cornells). This book is not clear but I believe McQueen was the grandfather to Chief Osceola.
    William Powell, Indian trader
    William Drew, silversmith who married a Creek woman
    Christopher Heickle, German Indian trader
    Obediah Lowe, Indian trader
    Richard Bailey, English trader who lived with the Creeks
    Josiah Fisher, a copper by trade
    Abraham Mordecai, a Jew of bad character (not my words, the
    William McCart, hireling of Mordecai-an honest trader
    John Haigue (called Savanah Jack)-probably one of the worst characters in Alabama history (authors words) responsible for the uprising of 1818 and his party murdered Captain William Butler near Old Ft. Bibb in 1818.
    John O'Riley, Irishman who drank a lot
    Townley Bruce, a Marylander. At one time a clerk in the Indian Dept. Capable businessman, but also a drinker.

    There is an Adair mentioned, but I can't figure out what the author is talking about. He goes from the treaty with Oglethorpe (Georgia) to talking about an "Adair" accusing the French at Ft. Toulouse of bribing the Indians with drink and baubles...???? No first name is mentioned.

    More later...


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